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brightephemera:

Word. My disdain (and yes, in my case it’s outright disdain) for Garrosh comes from a few sources:

 1) He legitimately is too immature, too centered on orcish “hey remember that time we all drank demon’s blood and murdered everything, good times, yeah?” culture with little understanding of the broader needs of the Horde, and too inexperienced to be a political leader. He might make it as far as “competent” as a war band leader if he has learned anything since his brilliant “let’s mount a full-scale charge into Antartica without taking time to set up supply lines” idea back in Warsong Hold, but he lacks both the experience and the broader vision that a Warchief needs.

2) He killed Cairne Bloodhoof, whom I remember fondly from Warcraft III and who with Varok Saurfang stands at the top of my list for people who *would* have been sane Warchiefs. I don’t really care about the extenuating circumstances, Garrosh, you accepted a duel to the death…instead of, say, talking about the false accusations first?…and you walked into the ring knowing only one of you would walk out. If you were even slightly surprised by the fact that this led to his not walking out, you’re a bigger idiot than point 1) alone can account for. And, sorry, but whether or not you had cheated in the contest, people will not forget that you offed one of the greatest elders of the Horde before running the Horde into the ground.

3) The Forsaken are still part of the Horde. After the Wrathgate (which by itself may have been excused/covered up, BUT), after the revamped Gilneas and Hillsbrad, why the f*** hasn’t Garrosh stabbed Sylvanas in the neck yet? She was incorporeal for a while, but she even went through a plot point to acquire a neck suitable for stabbing and it still hasn’t occurred to Garrosh to do it. Sorry, anybody who comes within ten feet of Sylvanas Windrunner and doesn’t challenge her is neither warrior nor leader enough to deserve power. Anybody who maintains “herp derp I believe you when you protest that you knew nothing of the apothecaries’ activities, also golly gee Hillsbrad looks bad but I’m sure it’s not your fault”, while she is actively twirling her moustache at them, just needs to die.

Basic Campfire is an ecumenical entity with universal relevance (point 1). Basic Campfire has been nerfed to where it will no longer defeat our enemies (such as Sylvanas, point 3), but at least it also won’t inflict friendly fire (point 2). Point 3 is a tie; points 1 and 2 go to Basic Campfire.

oh my god can you stop talking

1.) This is basically true, however you have to remember that Garrosh himself felt he wasn’t ready for this. He does need more experience, but I’d argue his vision is too broad, and too focused on the end goal.He needs to be able to even vaguely recognise the trees that make up the forest itself, and be able to weigh the moral and physical sacrifices that would have to be made in order to reach his ideal endgame, and be able to ask himself, is it worth it?

While Garrosh struggles as a political leader due to his autocratic mien and unwillingness to listen to criticism or contrary ideas, this isn’t a problem with Hellscream the general. Horde troops, especially orcs, respond well to a commander who leads directly and through clear orders he expects to be immediately followed. This is another strength of Garrosh as a military leader - he can not only motivate his troops, but he understands them. However, it’s also a weakness when dealing with non-orc troops in the Horde war machine. One of Hellscream’s biggest failures as Warchief is his absolute inability to use the forces at his command to their utmost. He can motivate and lead orcs, and to a lesser degree tauren (mainly due to the respect he shows their capacity as warriors) but he is much less skilled at not only commanding but understanding how to make use of the other military forces of the Horde. His use of the Forsaken during the original push into Gilneas was so aggressively unwilling to consider the costs of his decisions that it actually motivated Sylvanas to return from her own suicide to prevent Garrosh from wiping out her soldiers. Garrosh shows a similar, although less pronounced, disdain for the trolls, blood elves and goblins under his command.

- (x)

2. ) Shut the fuck up, Garrosh TRIED to explain that he was innorcent, which he WAS, and Cairne wasn’t fucking hearing it. He didn’t WANT to hear it. He was absolutely and unequivocally convinced that Garrosh was to blame, and challenged him to a duel. An still, Garrosh gave CAirne a chance to back down and excuse his accusations and walk out before things escalated. In response  Cairne fucking struck a physical blow on the new Warchief.

 

Son, do you know how Horde politics work? It’s a goddamn Alpha Dog society. When someone tries to slap you around, all talk absolutely goes out the window, and there was no way for Garrosh to back down from a fight without having his people immediately think less of him. 

UM, YEAH, HE WALKED INTO THE RING KNOWING ONLY ONE OF THEM WOULD WALK OUT

THAT IS THE POINT OF A DUEL TO THE DEATH

THIS WAS A CONSENSUAL CONDITION, THAT BOTH PARTIES AGREED UPON.

 

How would you be feeling right now if Cairne won?

If Cairne walked in to this young orc’s throne room, accusing him of the murder of druids, threw him around, demanded a duel, and then killed him, only to discover, hey, he was innocent.

In that scenario, Garrosh would undoubtedly be portrayed as a victim, and Cairne would be met with, “How dare you question Thrall’s judgement, how DARE you kill our leader, how DARE you.”

GUESS WHAT: THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED, with the exception of who walked out of the fighting ring. 

And still, Garrosh is displayed as the villain here? He was a tool, a pawn, and a victim in this scenario! Shut up.

3. ) hahaha oh wow um ok

 GARROSH IS THE ONLY FUCKING PERSON ON THE FACE OF AZEROTH WHO IS ACTUALLY KEEPING AN EYE ON SYLVANAS, AND HE CONDEMNED HER FOR HER ACTIONS. 
Hey look, another article, this one detailing that the very reason Garrosh shouldn’t die is because of the fact that he’s trying to keep Sylvanas on a short leash!

Now here’s the thing, buddy; the Horde, as much as I dislike her, needs Sylvanas. Undercity is the Horde’s main foothold into the Eastern Kingdoms geographically, and the Forsaken are the strongest soldiers on EK that the Horde has.

And as much as Garrosh hates Sylvanas, as much as on a personal level that he would have liked to cast her from the Horde due to her scheming, unpredictable, underhanded nature, he needs her as an ally. He needs her resources, her soldiers, and not to mention that she is an absolutely brilliant, albeit ruthless tactician. Garrosh asks her to get Gilneas? She gets Gilneas. Not in the way he’d like, or want to tolerate, but when a military operation is asked of her, she goes above and beyond. 

 

That i why Sylvanas lives. That is why she is still in the Horde. Because she is a necessity. That is why Garrosh hasn’t marched armies into Undercity itself, as much as I’m sure he’d love to. He needs her as an ally, better than an enemy, and more than that; even if he did kill her, it would inspire such rage in those already looking for an excuse to have his head (ie: the rest of the Horde leaders) that it would probably fracture and cripple the Horde as we know it.

 

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